Última edición por Branagh/Doyle; 14/11/2024 a las 00:48 Razón: Me comí un trozo
"There’s this misconception these days that a thematic score means a dated-sounding score. This, of course, is a cop out. There’s no reason to throw the baby out with the bathwater. The art of composing modern scores is the having the skill set to keep motifs alive while being relevant. But too many times, newer composers have no idea what fully developed themes are because they grew up on scores that are nothing more than ostinatos and “buahs.”
John Ottman.
"There’s this misconception these days that a thematic score means a dated-sounding score. This, of course, is a cop out. There’s no reason to throw the baby out with the bathwater. The art of composing modern scores is the having the skill set to keep motifs alive while being relevant. But too many times, newer composers have no idea what fully developed themes are because they grew up on scores that are nothing more than ostinatos and “buahs.”
John Ottman.
The trick is to pretend you've planned the whole thing out in advance
Go Back to Da Cluuuub!!!
Pues lo he mirado y sale en... 2:14:10.
"There’s this misconception these days that a thematic score means a dated-sounding score. This, of course, is a cop out. There’s no reason to throw the baby out with the bathwater. The art of composing modern scores is the having the skill set to keep motifs alive while being relevant. But too many times, newer composers have no idea what fully developed themes are because they grew up on scores that are nothing more than ostinatos and “buahs.”
John Ottman.
Extrañísimo XD También justo un minuto después.
Si no te es molestia XD El fundido a negroes en 1:22:35. Hay que desentrañar el misterio XDSpoiler:
The trick is to pretend you've planned the whole thing out in advance
Go Back to Da Cluuuub!!!
Ay! querido Francis
Es posible que las luces de la gran ciudad te hayan cegado levemente.
Eres el padre de una de las mejores películas de todos los tiempos y obtuviste la gloria por aquella grandiosa trilogia.
Ahora bien, gracias al cielo no existe nada de lo que afirmas con esas declaraciones en ella.
"The trick is not minding that it hurts"
Pues... no hay fundido como tal, que además recuerdo que se prolongaba un poquito en el corte de cine. Ahora, tras la secuencia con las siluetas en los edificios, hay una luz, como una especie de linterna en la oscuridad, que acaba desapareciendo y pasamos directamente al señor delante del micrófono haciendo la pregunta a la pantalla de cine. Esto sucede en 1:22:40
Qué cosa más rara.
"There’s this misconception these days that a thematic score means a dated-sounding score. This, of course, is a cop out. There’s no reason to throw the baby out with the bathwater. The art of composing modern scores is the having the skill set to keep motifs alive while being relevant. But too many times, newer composers have no idea what fully developed themes are because they grew up on scores that are nothing more than ostinatos and “buahs.”
John Ottman.
Última edición por StarKiller Ren; 14/11/2024 a las 01:31
The trick is to pretend you've planned the whole thing out in advance
Go Back to Da Cluuuub!!!
¿Pero en cines no había un fundido a negro más largo antes de dar paso a la rueda de prensa? ¿O recuerdo mal?
Ren, resulta que la duración no es 2:19:01 en la copia de Amazon sino 2:19:39. Disculpa, anoche era tarde.
Ahora estoy delante del televisor, con las gafas puestas, y lo he comprobado dos veces.
"El círculo" en la sauna cierra en 1:55:49.
Última edición por Branagh/Doyle; 14/11/2024 a las 10:06
"There’s this misconception these days that a thematic score means a dated-sounding score. This, of course, is a cop out. There’s no reason to throw the baby out with the bathwater. The art of composing modern scores is the having the skill set to keep motifs alive while being relevant. But too many times, newer composers have no idea what fully developed themes are because they grew up on scores that are nothing more than ostinatos and “buahs.”
John Ottman.
"There’s this misconception these days that a thematic score means a dated-sounding score. This, of course, is a cop out. There’s no reason to throw the baby out with the bathwater. The art of composing modern scores is the having the skill set to keep motifs alive while being relevant. But too many times, newer composers have no idea what fully developed themes are because they grew up on scores that are nothing more than ostinatos and “buahs.”
John Ottman.
Si, en cines hay segundos en negro para hacer tiempo a que llegara la persona real que hace la pregunta. Ahora ves al entrevistador llegar. Queda guay el cambio.
He desentrañado el misterio, hay un error en la copia de Amazon y salen dos escenas tras los créditos sin sonido, Julia con su padre en su despacho, y boda y paso a Saturnalia. XD
Última edición por StarKiller Ren; 14/11/2024 a las 10:35
The trick is to pretend you've planned the whole thing out in advance
Go Back to Da Cluuuub!!!
"There’s this misconception these days that a thematic score means a dated-sounding score. This, of course, is a cop out. There’s no reason to throw the baby out with the bathwater. The art of composing modern scores is the having the skill set to keep motifs alive while being relevant. But too many times, newer composers have no idea what fully developed themes are because they grew up on scores that are nothing more than ostinatos and “buahs.”
John Ottman.
Dice mi hijo mayor que la copia de Apple está correcta y que ellos además ofrecen la película con Dolby Atmos, cosa que Amazon no.
Eso si, definitivamente a los VFX les han pasado una mano de chapa y pintura.
Última edición por Branagh/Doyle; 14/11/2024 a las 10:55
"There’s this misconception these days that a thematic score means a dated-sounding score. This, of course, is a cop out. There’s no reason to throw the baby out with the bathwater. The art of composing modern scores is the having the skill set to keep motifs alive while being relevant. But too many times, newer composers have no idea what fully developed themes are because they grew up on scores that are nothing more than ostinatos and “buahs.”
John Ottman.
Pues yo lógicamente ahora exijo edición física en UHD con TODAS las versiones, incluidas las que sean defectuosas por incompetencia de alguna plataforma.
Boicot y cancelación en caso contrario...
Peinabombillas
Del it. peinar, bombilla.
1. adj. Dícese de aquel hombre que realiza actividades absurdas o faltas de razonamiento.
2. adj. coloq. Dicho de una persona: Que se comporta de forma similar o que evoca al cineasta James Gunn.
Una pregunta, Muthur. En este caso, la chapa y pintura de los VFX o el nuevo escenario en que transcurre la secuencia de la rueda de prensa no contaría respecto a tu postura de que el corte de cines de una película siempre ha de estar disponible, ¿correcto? Porque técnicamente, es el corte de cines, no dura más ni hay metraje nuevo de ninguna clase, ni diálogo nuevo.
"There’s this misconception these days that a thematic score means a dated-sounding score. This, of course, is a cop out. There’s no reason to throw the baby out with the bathwater. The art of composing modern scores is the having the skill set to keep motifs alive while being relevant. But too many times, newer composers have no idea what fully developed themes are because they grew up on scores that are nothing more than ostinatos and “buahs.”
John Ottman.
El corte original siempre debería ser obligatorio, independientemente de que no cambie la duración o incluso no se alteren secuencias. El corte de cines se presupone el primer corte "bueno", y debería incluirse en cualquier edición física o digital de la película.
Pero obviamente todo tiene matices y no hay absolutos, como en cualquier cosa de la vida...
Si el corte de cines es algo "provisional", no es la primera versión que quiere el director/productor y es como es por problemas de tiempo o técnicos de cualquier tipo, lo entiendo como corte ad hoc para salir del paso, y el concepto de corte "original" se lo atribuyo al corte que se edite inmediatamente después, si es lo que se quería desde un primer momento, y si los creadores así lo argumentan.
De todos modos supongo que en cuanto salgan las ediciones físicas y se pueda comparar, ya habrá debate y algo dirá el Godfather sobre todas las variaciones y cuál es el corte "real"...
Peinabombillas
Del it. peinar, bombilla.
1. adj. Dícese de aquel hombre que realiza actividades absurdas o faltas de razonamiento.
2. adj. coloq. Dicho de una persona: Que se comporta de forma similar o que evoca al cineasta James Gunn.
Aquí la única constante parece ser que Coppola hace lo que le da gana siempre.
"There’s this misconception these days that a thematic score means a dated-sounding score. This, of course, is a cop out. There’s no reason to throw the baby out with the bathwater. The art of composing modern scores is the having the skill set to keep motifs alive while being relevant. But too many times, newer composers have no idea what fully developed themes are because they grew up on scores that are nothing more than ostinatos and “buahs.”
John Ottman.
El espíritu de American Zoetrope iba precisamente en esa dirección. Y siempre ha definido bastante a ambos (Lucas y Coppola).
RIP, Sir Pratchett.
«¿Me permites una crítica constructiva a la mierda esa que has hecho?»
«En la primera reunión con él sobre el futuro de Star Wars, George se sintió traicionado» B. Iger.
«El mal no puede crear nada nuevo, sólo corromper o arruinar lo que las fuerzas del bien han inventado o construido». J.R.R. Tolkien.
«DEI kills ART. It´s ineffective and actually appears to increase prejudice, not reduce it».
«Put a chick in it and make her gay and lame». Cartman as K.K.
Me acaban de responder los de Amazon (les reporté el asunto anoche) disculpándose por la metedura de pata monumental e informándome de que ya han corregido el error. Efectivamente, me he metido en mi cuenta de UK, le he dado al play, y ya marca 2:18:01, exactamente la misma duración que el corte de cines.
Así que ya está todo en orden, Ren. Ya puedes descansar en paz.
También me han indicado, para mi enorme sorpresa (les pregunte si sabían algo al respecto, vaya, por si sonaba la flauta), que efectivamente some composites and CGI backgrounds have been improved by the American Zoetrope in house team for the home video release of the film (including the upcoming physical editions), and the color grading and contrast have been sightly tweaked as well in order to correct some unwanted flatness present within the cinematography of the theatrical cut.
Helado me he quedado. Supongo que esto ha sido posible tan rápido porque Coppola es propietario del film y no hay ningún estudio detrás. Legalmente, digo.
La verdad es que luce espectacular en 4K.
Última edición por Branagh/Doyle; 14/11/2024 a las 14:35 Razón: Errata
"There’s this misconception these days that a thematic score means a dated-sounding score. This, of course, is a cop out. There’s no reason to throw the baby out with the bathwater. The art of composing modern scores is the having the skill set to keep motifs alive while being relevant. But too many times, newer composers have no idea what fully developed themes are because they grew up on scores that are nothing more than ostinatos and “buahs.”
John Ottman.
¿Se aplicara a las futuras ediciones fisicas en otros paises como Alemania, Francia...?
Esa es la verdadera cuestion.
"There’s this misconception these days that a thematic score means a dated-sounding score. This, of course, is a cop out. There’s no reason to throw the baby out with the bathwater. The art of composing modern scores is the having the skill set to keep motifs alive while being relevant. But too many times, newer composers have no idea what fully developed themes are because they grew up on scores that are nothing more than ostinatos and “buahs.”
John Ottman.
El confetti parece de altísima resolución ahora, eso está claro.
Y el montacargas ya no pixela. Cosillas así.
"There’s this misconception these days that a thematic score means a dated-sounding score. This, of course, is a cop out. There’s no reason to throw the baby out with the bathwater. The art of composing modern scores is the having the skill set to keep motifs alive while being relevant. But too many times, newer composers have no idea what fully developed themes are because they grew up on scores that are nothing more than ostinatos and “buahs.”
John Ottman.
Esto lo digo porque dudo que de este film haya varios masters circulando, aunque podría equivocarme. Tiene pinta de que el resto del mundo tirará de la autoría/master que hagan los de Zoetrope para el BD y UHD USA. Cómo la peli es de Coppola... otra cosa será la codificación -bitrate- de la distribuidora encargada de la edición en físico en cada país.
"There’s this misconception these days that a thematic score means a dated-sounding score. This, of course, is a cop out. There’s no reason to throw the baby out with the bathwater. The art of composing modern scores is the having the skill set to keep motifs alive while being relevant. But too many times, newer composers have no idea what fully developed themes are because they grew up on scores that are nothing more than ostinatos and “buahs.”
John Ottman.
Maravilloso texto de un usuario del foro de Criterion sobre el film (en respuesta a otro usuario, pero se entiende por el contexto).
SPOILERS:
I'd go so far as to say that both infamous lines of dialogue are straightforward jokes with contextually communicated setups and punchlines. In the former case, LaBeouf ("revenge tastes best in a dress") is goofing around with his partner-in-crime about a disguise, but underneath that is a subversion of the character's heretofore arch-masculine approach. He hates Adam Driver so much that he'll debase his Roman virtus (in his eyes, and also in a certain sense in the eyes of the film) for revenge.
In the latter case, Plaza ("you're so anal, I'm so oral") is attempting to entice Driver into sex with a series of cheeky come-hither one-liners. It's a little broad, because her character is a little broad (in ways that are useful for the critical aims of the film), but it's one of our first signs that Plaza's preferred tactic is overt sexual manipulation (see also: her subsequent interactions with Voight and LaBeouf himself). Her specific phrasing is also a subtle Freudian joke: the anal phase of development follows the oral, so she is rhetorically making herself an "immature" sexual partner, itself a powerful image that recurs through the film. Quite frankly, I think there are several other humorous asides you could have picked from this wonderful film (such as Driver's recitation of the entirety of Hamlet's most famous soliloquy) whose points are harder to grasp.
I think the two major elements of the film's approach that cause it to fail to land for so many people are its simultaneous contempt for conservatism, abstracted in the nightmare cartoon vision of modern elite culture with a Roman makeover, and its equally earnest and sentimental depiction of progressivism, which Coppola conjures as a force so perfect and powerful that it can bestow actual superpowers. When examined from this perspective, the narrative of the film is not so much nonexistent as it is simple and sublimated into the philosophical conflict at the film's core. Similarly, the movie is not a tonal disaster area so much as it is a combination of broad yet pointed satire and deeply sincere suggestion for a path away from what ails us. If you wanted to watch a film that is truly just rudderless setpieces, throw on Caligula.
Even if you hate this film, I don't think you could make a serious argument that it is either "uninterested in politics, history, or psychology," given how frequently all three subjects recur, or only interested in its own prurience or feeling of self-impressedness.
I also kind of rankle at your description of the movie's central conflict. Cicero and crew's "perspective" on the world is neither moderate nor stabilizing: they are elitists who preserve the unequal status quo for personal gain, in doing so hollowing out society, creating a 1% monoculture as inaccessible as it is repulsive as it is inescapable, and justly attracting the ire of ordinary citizens (note how Esposito is met with constant booing whenever he appears in public, a device that would be effective enough if it were not an eerily accurate replica of the public image of the current mayor of New York, and several other occupants of the same position during the lengthy gestation of this film). What you have cast as disconnected sketch comedy bits are, in fact, vicious satires of the real counterparts of most of these characters. Consider, as you do, virginal pop star Vesta Sweetwater's arc.
During her relatively brief time on screen, she:
1. is presented as an archetypal Vestal Virgin, a woman whose purity represented the spiritual quality of the Roman state (utile elite civic institution)
2. auctions off her virginity to a high bidder (elitist corruption of said institution)
3. is revealed to be spiritually impure (comes to signify the rot and incapacity of ruling elites)
4. rebrands herself as a newly sexually potent adult (attempts institutional transformation)
None of this is subtle, but the point is to connect two separate patterns of social and cultural behavior and use the grossness of one to comment upon the grossness of another. Coppola is using the oversexualization of female teen idol singers and the usual arc they take to talk about the worst parts of conservative culture: it is moribund, predictable, and fetishistically obsessed with the sexual behavior of vulnerable women. It's an accurate read of these types of artistic expression (when I saw Sweetwater's second music video, I could only think about a real teen idol trying to rebrand her sexuality using the verbatim phrases "untouched XO" and "losing all my innocence in the back seat"). But more pertinently, it is a highly effective Vox Lux-esque attempt to expose the interconnected qualities of social problems that share a root cause.
A skeptic of this reading might suggest that the film thus puts its faith too much in Adam Driver's architect and his grand central plan to save humankind, but I think the film is implicitly critical of his actions in isolation. Acting alone, he is a genius, but also a Robert Moses figure, a great planner whose politically entrenched brilliance has led him to disregard the humans whom a better system would serve (hence his copious demolitions of buildings early on in the film and his pigheaded attitude towards displaced residents). Nathalie Emmanuel's character saves him by returning him to humanity, by, to borrow a phrase, being the heart that mediates his head and his hands. Only together and through love can they strive towards the grand civilization-saving plan of Driver's dreams. To Coppola, this is corny, and also true.
I kind of can't believe that it's taken me this long to talk about the special and visual effects, the best and most striking element of this film, but that's because they are, again, powerful contextual extensions of the film's mood, milieu, and message. On one level they are abstracting devices, tools through which Coppola can blend disparate real-world influences like the hold of "Roman-ness" upon the American founding myth or the venality of mainstream news media or the mental disarray of post 9/11 New York, but their form too does tremendous things for the movie. Some parts of the film, mostly those with the villainous characters, feature what I would call deliberate tackiness, with overlit shots, asymmetrical camera movements, heinous CGI elements, and garish costume and hair/makeup choices. Most of Voight and Plaza's wedding, for instance, features all of these elements, culminating in Driver's drug-enhanced freakout in which the hideousness of New Roman life physically harms him.
But these are combined with effects that are utterly gorgeous and convincing: Vesta Sweetwater's virgin-song looks completely different and is shot in a completely different fashion to the Bacchanalia surrounding it. It is ethereally beautiful, in contrast to the ugliness around it, because it is a direct expression of a Roman founding myth. From the opposite side of the film's conflict, I found the scenes with Driver on various rooftops to be completely transporting and convincing. You feel (or, well, I felt) perfectly his fear of and difficulty in expressing his great vision, and are(/were/was) astonished by the occasional but stunning use of his magic power.
Megalon is an aesthetically ideal substance, as multivariate and beautiful as it is useful. Vesta Sweetwater demonstrates how it "goes with anything" before it's ever used to build a building. I know that a lot of this paragraph is "but I found it compelling," but I think there's more to Coppola's method towards effects-driven filmmaking than what most profit-minded effects-heavy films can contain (for the dreamier parts of this film, what other comparison even exists but Twin Peaks: The Return?). It's a real shame to me that this film is attracting pejorative comparisons to the Wachowskis or Prequels-era George Lucas, as in truth it finds a substance in its maximalism that those filmmakers never achieve.
"There’s this misconception these days that a thematic score means a dated-sounding score. This, of course, is a cop out. There’s no reason to throw the baby out with the bathwater. The art of composing modern scores is the having the skill set to keep motifs alive while being relevant. But too many times, newer composers have no idea what fully developed themes are because they grew up on scores that are nothing more than ostinatos and “buahs.”
John Ottman.
Detrás de las cámaras:
"There’s this misconception these days that a thematic score means a dated-sounding score. This, of course, is a cop out. There’s no reason to throw the baby out with the bathwater. The art of composing modern scores is the having the skill set to keep motifs alive while being relevant. But too many times, newer composers have no idea what fully developed themes are because they grew up on scores that are nothing more than ostinatos and “buahs.”
John Ottman.